All the steps

"ttyymmnn" (ttyymmnn) 10/17/2016 at 17:15 • Filed to: None

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I volunteered at my boys’ elementary school today as part of the !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! program. “DOGS” stands for “Dads of Great Students,” and the program has dads spend a day at the school helping in the classroom, providing extra security on the campus, and generally providing a male role model in a place where so many of the adult role models are women. It’s a great program, and it keeps me on my feet for seven hours at a stretch. I usually volunteer at least twice a year, and today is my boys’ 11th birthday. I’m tired, but it was a good day.

S65 > ttyymmnn 10/17/2016 at 17:16

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Oh

Nothing > ttyymmnn 10/17/2016 at 17:32

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My wife does most of the school volunteering. We have the same program at our school, though, too. I help coach my son’s hockey team, and manage it, so I figure we balance out when it comes to volunteer opportunities.

Good for you for volunteering at school! I think that’s really important.

ttyymmnn > Nothing 10/17/2016 at 17:35

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I think it’s important, too. I’m also on the board of the PTA, and both my wife and I volunteer at school whenever we can. I cannot over emphasize the importance of being active in your kids’ school. Get to know the admins, the teachers, the gym and music teachers. You can advocate for your child, and you can keep track of what’s going on in the learning environment. I see so many kids whose parents are completely unaware of what goes on, then they complain when they hear about something they don’t like. If you’re not going to take part in the process, you have no right to gripe.

DipodomysDeserti > ttyymmnn 10/17/2016 at 17:57

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I see so many kids whose parents are completely unaware of what goes on, then they complain when they hear about something they don’t like. If you’re not going to take part in the process, you have no right to gripe.

I volunteer at my kid’s school, but I know there are parents out there who simply aren’t able to be so involved in their kids school, otherwise they wouldn’t be able to put food on the table/pay rent etc. Most working class jobs aren’t going to give you time off during the week. You should expect a certain degree of care and education whether or not you’re able to be involved in the actual goings-on at the school.

ttyymmnn > DipodomysDeserti 10/17/2016 at 18:10

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I understand that completely, but there are plenty of volunteer opportunities on nights and weekends. You can be a member of the PTA and attend PTA meetings outside of the normal 9-5 work schedule. As a PTA board member, I am well aware of the wide gamut of families that attend our school. But we have maybe 10% of the families as members of PTA. That needs to be a dramatically higher number. Absolutely, you should expect a certain degree of care and education, and, for the most part, I think most schools provide that. But I would love to see more parents become involved in any way possible.

I played basketball with a kindergartner this morning whose parents routinely drop him off and say, “Take this kid, I’m sick of him.” They say that in front of the boy, and his self-esteem is shit. He’s a wonderful kid, with a horrible home situation. The school provides a stability and nurturing that he doesn’t have at home. We also have kids whose parents basically live at the school, but their schedules and family structure allow it. I’m a stay-home dad, so I’ve got lots of time. But there is a solid middle ground that all or at least most parents can take advantage of. I just wish more did.

Xyl0c41n3 > DipodomysDeserti 10/17/2016 at 18:16

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Thank you for saying that.

My mom was incredibly involved in our schools because she was an employee of those schools. My dad, though? Though he was otherwise very, VERY active in all our goings-on, he could only make it to the occasional after-business-hours talent show, Open House, or Meet the Teacher night because he couldn’t afford to take time off work during the day. My parents, like many others, balanced a very modest budget. One eight-hour work day spent away from work could have meant not paying a bill.

Though there most definitely are absentee parents who aren’t as involved in their children’s educations as they could be (trust me, as an educator, my mom has plenty of stories), it’s beyond privileged and naive to assume those parents who don’t go during school hours are being lazy/neglectful/complainers with no right to “gripe.”

DipodomysDeserti > ttyymmnn 10/17/2016 at 18:36

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I don’t mean to shit on you, I really don’t, and I think that it’s great that you are so involved in your kid’s school. But to say that you’re tired after volunteering at an elementary school when you’re a stay at home dad shows me that you don’t really have any idea how hard some people have to work just to keep a roof over their family’s head. The fact you think a single parent would work a 9-5 job shows you’re pretty out of touch with how most working class families with one breadwinner get by. I have another spouse working, am solidly middle class, and work more than a 9-5 job. On the weekends I take my kids camping and hiking. I’m not going to have them stay at home while I go to some meeting and bs with people who I can’t relate with and who can’t relate with me.

And trust me, the last thing an exhausted, hard-working parent wants to hear at the end of the day is someone who is completely out of touch with their reality tell them they don’t get to complain because they don’t attend PTA meetings. Comparing them to an abusive parent would really be icing on the cake after a twelve hour shift.

Now, I definitely think there are some parents who have time, but instead sit at home watching TV. I teach part-time, and get t have parent teacher conferences with these parent. But please don’t classify all of them into that category or assume the person is a shitbag like the parent in your anecdote.

cbell04 > ttyymmnn 10/17/2016 at 21:53

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Who let the dogs out?

ttyymmnn > DipodomysDeserti 10/18/2016 at 10:02

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I’ve been thinking about your words for a long time, since I was unable to reply yesterday. I was at work. Yes, I do work, I just have a job that works evenings and weekends. And I’ve been thinking how best to respond, because I regret a remark that was insensitive. I made a generalization and, as a college professor once said to me, “All generalizations are lies.” However, I also think I don’t deserve some of your remarks.

But to say that you’re tired after volunteering at an elementary school when you’re a stay at home dad shows me that you don’t really have any idea how hard some people have to work just to keep a roof over their family’s head.

I don’t believe that being tired after walking 8 miles makes me out of touch with those who work 40+ hours a week. Tired is tired, whether you’re digging coal or walking around a school interacting with and supporting students and teachers. Just because I am in a situation where I don’t have to punch a clock and struggle to put food on the table doesn’t mean that I am unable to sympathize with those in that situation. And yes, I accept that my comment could be taken that way. But I am speaking from a position of frustration more than anything.

The role of the PTA is to provide students with things that our school district simply doesn’t pay for. Field trips, for example. Many parents are surprised to learn that the school district does not pay for buses to take our students on field trips. So the PTA pays for those, because we believe that it is important to provide all of our students with experiences outside of the classroom, but particularly those who couldn’t afford it on their own. But raising the funds to support our students is hard work, it’s time consuming, and there is only a very small number of parents who do the overwhelming majority of the work. We would like to have more help. Lots of help. Clearly, some parents simply can’t. I assure you, I get that. But there are others who simply won’t. And it is to those people that I addressed my comment.

Another thing that is lacking in my generalization is the understanding that not all support of students happens on the school grounds. Students whose parents are actively engaged in their child’s education by helping with homework, projects, keeping abreast of grades, attending conferences, etc. make a world of difference in the classroom.

Did I compare a hard working parent to an abusive parent? Absolutely not. I was illustrating the range of families we have at our school. Like everywhere else in this country, we have rich schools and poor. It’s patently unfair to the kids of the state, but that’s our system. Our school is somewhere in the middle. It’s a Title I school, which means that over half of the students qualify for a free or reduced lunch. So we have the whole range of families, from those who are struggling to those who are comfortable, though certainly not affluent. If you felt that I was comparing an honest, hard-working parent trying to provide for their family with a child abuser, then you misread my comment.

Which is why I’d love to have this conversation some time over a beer or an iced tea on the back porch, because I don’t believe that internet forums are the best place for discourse. The written word, once written, cannot be changed, while words passing between two people face to face are more open to nuance and joint understanding. However, any discussion about how we support our children’s education is an important one. I simply wish there were a lot more parents involved in the discussion.

DipodomysDeserti > ttyymmnn 10/18/2016 at 10:37

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If you were just speaking out of frustration, I hear you. However, my own experiences with volunteering with parents at my kids school (my kids are at an elementary school in a fairly wealthy area) are that many of the parents who rag on other parents for not being more involved with activities have absolutely no idea what it’s like to work their fingers to the bone. In the case of my kids school, a lot of the parents are working 9-5 office jobs, but I’ve have parents comment to me about there being no excuse not to be doing so-and-so activity. Meanwhile I’ve just finished working 12 hours split between two different jobs and can see several reasons why someone in a harder situation than me wouldn’t be able to do as much. Some of what you’ve said here reinforced that.

Tired is tired, whether you’re digging coal or walking around a school interacting with and supporting students and teachers.

As someone who’s worked manual labor jobs and also teaches, I can tell you that this just isn’t true, and this is the mindset I was trying to bring to your attention. There are most definitely different levels of exhaustion. Like I said previously, I’m not trying to crap on you, but just wanted to let you know how out of touch that sounds to someone like me. I’m sure there’s parents who could help out that don’t and that is definitely frustrating. However, if you were to say some of these things in front of someone like me, you’d just piss them off, and then they wouldn’t want anything to do with PTA.

I don’t want you to think I’m frustrated at you, because I’m not. I just wanted to make you aware of how some people are going to interpret and react to what you’ve expressed. I agree that sitting down and having a beer is always a better way to see where someone is coming from and to hash things out.